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Question

This issue came up in the club flight before last...

Water in the Torres Straight Islands with default FSX...

2015-4-19_4-56-54-259.png

Water in the Torres Straight Islands with ORBX FTX AU SP4...

2015-4-19_5-11-4-552.png

No changes to REX, ORBX at very top of scenery library and yet apart from the blending with the addon island the default FSX water looks at least twice as good, but still not the same as screenshots taken by others on the same flight in much the same location using ORBX...

This is probably better asked over at the ORBX forum but thought I'd ask here in case anyone has had a similar issue.

Mike

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its the stock waterlclass.bgls vs the custom FTX waterclass.bgls

as for the colour it depends on the custom water colours, and sky colours installed and how high you have water detail turned up, hence why everyone's experience is different

Edited by jeansy

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Well yes and no.

As for the colour the exact shade is not the issue. The issue is that with FTX AU SP4 installed the water here looks exactly the same as water everywhere else. Initially I thought that ORBX had just got it wrong (wouldn't be a first) but then when we were doing a club flight up there at one point I saw someones screenshot which had the reef/shallow water textures, more like in my screenie of the default non FTX water, apart from the fact that, like me, he was actually running FTX. Discussion with the other people flying that evening confirmed that this was the reef/shallow water texture as they had both this and the more typical blue water in other parts of the country (whereas I have just the normal blue everywhere).

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Check your PMs please

 

as for the types of water, its waterclass, which is easily editable, as for the reeef textures in the FTX green region, thats adjustable as well

 

The images to me are the same FTX reefs that just reflect contrast differently to the base waterclass

Edited by jeansy

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   The images to me are the same FTX reefs that just reflect contrast differently to the base waterclass

 

Couple of things to clarify to make sure we're on the same page.

1) The first thing I tried is changing the settings in REX (including sky) and while yes it does make a minor difference as it does in real life it didn't have even close to the required effect to make it look similar to that that the other person was getting.

2) The pics above are taken above my Yorke Island scenery OZx YYKI Yorke Islands Nth Qld so the foreground reefs in both images is actually PR with a watermask and partial transparency (using the blendmask) over it the submerged part. The change that I am trying to highlight in these pics is in the stock FSX there is light blue water in the middle of the pic with the typical darker blue deep water out where it is deeper in the top left of the pic (two different types of waterclass). While in the FTX version the foreground semi-transparent PR with the watermask is near as makes no difference the same (as it should be since no other parameters have changed) while everywhere else is the typical darker blue deep water from around the rest of Aus and indeed also the rest of the world.

3) The other people I have talked to this about that have the lighter blue water can adjust what reef/shallow water texture (and reef details) they want by changing the "Tropical Water Textures" in REX while for me changing this makes no difference. I can change the colour of this water but by changing the "Ocean Water Textures".  While everyone else had detailed reef/shallow water/waterclass I don't have any reef detail at all ie. there is no reef/shallow water waterclass there at all.

Edited by Mike Burbidge

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yep Im sure you are talking about water class, no different to land class but for water

to save time I acquired a explanation from the FSWC guys


Waterclass

The waterclass in FSX is very similar to the landclass. The world is divided up into 1km square tiles. Each tile can be given a distinct 'class' such as deep inland brown water or shallow tropical water. As you can imagine a 1km square is rather imprecise and any water that is drawn within that tile will be given the texture called by the class and, unlike the land, it cannot be supplemented by using hand drawn polygons of specific textures. However, FSX does have the ability to blend between two adjacent textures using a blending mask, which lessens the 'square tiled' look of the water.

This lack of resolution of the waterclass means it is very difficult to get a natural look where inland water meets the sea. You will frequently find areas of inland water out to sea or ocean textures appearing well up river. This depends on where abouts in the 1km square tile the mouth of the river is. If you are lucky and the mouth of a river falls on the edge of a tile, you can produce quite a realistic look. However, if the mouth is in the centre of a tile you either have the choice of making the tile inland water and get inland water textures in the ocean or vice-versa.

Tropical Seas

There are no less than 60 different water textures and variations in the sim, of which 24 are tropical textures. There are four different variations of shallow tropical and non-tropical textures and each has four levels of plankton concentrations. There is also a medium depth tropical and non-tropical texture with four variations of plankton concentration and the same for deep water.

Inland water has two distinct colour variations, blue and brown. Each has a shallow and deep variant and non-perennial, ocean inlet and outflow versions. It could be said that since the maximum resolution of the texture calling is 1km square, that many of these variations are a bit pointless.

Default FSX's waterclass makes very poor use of these textures and barely scratches the surface of the variations possible. Although Ultimate Terrain X and Full Terrain Xperience include their own waterclasses, there is no payware or freeware package available that upgrades the waterclass around the world like there is for landclass.

Environment Addons

So how do water texture replacement programs, such as Real Environment Xtreme or Flight Environment X work? Well these simply replace the default FSX textures with their own. Unfortunately, they cannot control where these textures are drawn in the sim so we are still at the mercy of FSX's waterclass. So if there are no tropical textures where there should be some, this will not change after you install one of these programs.

Ultimate Terrain X is a bit different. While it doesn't include its own water textures, it does include its own waterclass and also the ability to manipulate this waterclass. It includes a 'water tint' control which lets you set the overall colour of inland water in the sim. In its default state (clear) the waterclasses uses all the various inland variations. If you set the tint to 'brown' then it alters the waterclass to show just brown inland water textures. So while you can alter the look of your water, you are restricting the total variations of the inland water textures.

 

Red- stock default FSX shallow tropical water class the bits not covered by red mid image to the left are stock tropical medium depth water class

Yellow -FTX AU Green reef BGLs

Blue- Scenery + mask

 

Image1.png

the difference with the second pic, FTX has inserted a new waterclass that removes the shallow stock tropical waterclass

no matter what texture addon including rex you wont get rid of the red region unless you overlay it with another  class

Edited by jeansy

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There are some specialized utilities in the Avsim library that make things quite simple even for the neophyte.For example, EZ-LandClass X by Russel Dirks is an Excel-based application that will change both land and water class.SBuilderX by Luis S

 

The best looking tool to edit waterclass IMO is EZ-Landclass as it blends in a far more realistic way than SBuilderX

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Red- stock default FSX shallow tropical waterclass the bits not covered by red are stock tropical medium depth waterclass

Yellow -FTX AU Green reef BGLs

Blue- Scenery mask

 

the difference with the second pic, FTX has inserted a new waterclass that removes the shallow stock tropical watercalss

no matter what texture addon including rex you wont get rid of the red region unless you overlay it with a class file

Again to clarify:

1) Red area I completely agree with you 100% stock FSX tropical shallow waterclass.

2) This image you have here is to Quote my caption from the original post: "Water in the Torres Straight Islands with default FSX..." So no the Yellow is defiantly not FTX but instead the Yellow and the Blue are PR.

3) I am not trying to get rid of the red area. The red region in this stock fsx image is what is correct in real life, what I want in the sim and critically (the whole point of this post) is what the other OZx Flying Club guys running FTX have. But my installation of FTX AU SP4 is getting rid of it.

 

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red isnt correct in real life, Im a regular to the TS region and about to spend the next 6 wks there with work, FSX has the whole GBR and most of the northern regions of AUS incorrectly matched

if you disable the reef bgls in the ftx green region folders (cant remember the folder numbers off the top of my head)you will loose the yellow bits, I did this some time as I was working waterclass for the whole GBR and around to broome as its waters I frequently spend my time and fly in FSX

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Ok well good to know that red the red area isn't right in real life (I had just sort of guessed based on some of my reference photos and what satellite imagery that was actually there). But realism aside, either way as a developer, I need to have it the same as everyone elses instillation and the simple fact is that what I can blend and have look good on my system will then look drastically different on other peoples. Found this old club pic from one of the other guys of one of my first projects:

phG9mN.jpg

On my system the water around the PR water is darker while (compare to my second photo in first post) on his, which was a pretty standard setup, is as you can see considerably lighter.

 

Will have to try a complete reinstall of AU SP4 and see if that fixes it...

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try getting screen shots from people with the water detail turned down and flat seas (wave height mapping), that will remove a lot of extra influences, thats the best way to compare water and find faults with water masking and water class

sadly the reef textures in rex, fsx or other addons depict  inshore tropical waters for places like the Bahamas, even Hawaii is done horribly wrong, I started redoing Pearl Harbour last yr after a 4mth work visit to there. FSX Pearl Harbour looks nothing like in real life

we really need new custom water textures to depict AU waters, however thats going to need a tone waterclass to match, thats a huge project in itself

Even the FTX reefs are horribly mismatch in colour and appearance , Jarrad did an outstanding job with CNS reefs, its ashame they wont do the rest of the GBR so we are stuck with those blue blobs of snot

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